From justin at discordia.org.uk  Thu Oct  3 16:01:44 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 16:01:44 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] [Announce] Technical Meeting Mon 7th October
Message-ID: <1380812504.27399.6.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

Technical Meeting - Introduction to microcontrollers
7pm Lecture Room 1, Fulton House, Swansea University.

This meeting will be a set of brief talks on the various microcontroller
technologies on the market, and how they can be used to build
interesting projects, everything from light up clothing to 3d printers
and interactive robots.

We will also be introducing the set of workshops we will be running this
year which will give you hands on tutorials of a popular microcontroller
system that you can build yourself and take home.

All those that are interested may attend, no membership required, please
spread the word.




From justin at discordia.org.uk  Mon Oct  7 11:42:51 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:42:51 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Reminder: Technical Meeting 7pm Monday 7th
	October
Message-ID: <1381142571.2401.5.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

A quick reminder of tonight's (7th October) Technical Meeting

7pm Lecture Room 1, Fulton House, Swansea University.

Introduction to Micro-Controllers

We will be covering a variety of popular micro-controller systems, and
talking about the workshops and tutorials that we will be covering this
year.





From timmoore47 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 12:18:46 2013
From: timmoore47 at gmail.com (Tim Moore)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 12:18:46 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Re: Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <201310071100.r97B04FZ008284@stoneship.org.uk>
References: <201310071100.r97B04FZ008284@stoneship.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAAEY5oO9-gStyxLHrqZwrjSgVJRmrx7T0wK9ddNWkn==dZ64MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Family event so can't make it.   Shame as it sounds very very interesting !

:  (((

Tim_2


On 7 October 2013 12:00, <hackspace-request at swansea.hackspace.org.uk> wrote:

> Send Hackspace mailing list submissions to
>         hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         hackspace-request at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         hackspace-owner at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Hackspace digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Reminder: Technical Meeting 7pm Monday 7th        October
>       (Justin Mitchell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:42:51 +0100
> From: Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Reminder: Technical Meeting 7pm Monday
>         7th     October
> To: hackspace <hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <1381142571.2401.5.camel at justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> A quick reminder of tonight's (7th October) Technical Meeting
>
> 7pm Lecture Room 1, Fulton House, Swansea University.
>
> Introduction to Micro-Controllers
>
> We will be covering a variety of popular micro-controller systems, and
> talking about the workshops and tutorials that we will be covering this
> year.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hackspace mailing list
> Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
>
>
> End of Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 2
> ****************************************
>
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From justin at discordia.org.uk  Wed Oct  9 10:26:45 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 10:26:45 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] website updates
Message-ID: <1381310805.31531.13.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

Thanks to everyone that came to the technical meeting on monday, and
special thanks to all those that contributed talks at such short notice.

I have updated the website with a summary of the meeting, if anyone
wants to submit copies of their slides, or other associated materials, i
will attach them.

Speaking of the website, you may have noticed the subtle changes that
reveal that i have moved it over to a wiki engine, this makes it much
easier to add/edit content than before.

If anyone else would like to contribute to the content of the website
then please email me off list for an account.





From gerrit.niezen at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 16:41:45 2013
From: gerrit.niezen at gmail.com (Gerrit Niezen)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:41:45 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association,
	or the constitution of our hackspace
Message-ID: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>

Hi all,

At the last meeting we were discussing registering the hackspace as a non-profit organisation (also known as a company limited by guarantee).  Why? So that we can apply for grants/funding, get a bank account and rent a physical space.

However, we realised that the model articles of association (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/3229/schedule/2/made) are not really suitable for the formation of a hackspace. For example, we would like to limit the power of the directors and not pay them any remuneration. I've had a look at London Hackspace - they have open sourced their articles of association (also known as a constitution) and I think it will be the easiest to adopt and modify theirs for our own purposes.

Things that need attention:
- 13(b) they require a quorum of 10 members at a general meeting - we may need to reduce this for the time being
- 24(b) "the number of directors shall not be less than three, nor more than nine" - I think we could change this to a minimum of two, but then we need to modify (26) as well
- 35(d) London Hackspace uses a web based system for the decision making process - if we're not going to do the same, we should remove this clause

I forked the documentation from London Hackspace's Github account into our own Swansea Hackspace account. There you can view the changes I've made so far:
https://github.com/swanseahackspace/documentation/tree/master/constitution

You can download the latest version of the .PDF document at the bottom of the page. Please comment and/or make suggestions, so that we can get it sorted out before the next meeting.

Kind regards,
Gerrit Niezen
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From justin at discordia.org.uk  Thu Oct 10 17:20:15 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 17:20:15 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
	constitution of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

On Thu, 2013-10-10 at 16:41 +0100, Gerrit Niezen wrote:

> Things that need attention:
> - 13(b) they require a quorum of 10 members at a general meeting - we
> may need to reduce this for the time being

For a large group i can see a fixed number being inviting, but for a
small group a percentage.  

Perhaps a suitable compromise would be something like:

a quorum of 10 members, or 50% of the current membership, whichever is
the smaller.



> - 24(b) "the number of directors shall not be less than three, nor
> more than nine" - I think we could change this to a minimum of two,
> but then we need to modify (26) as well

I am unsure why they have quite such a convoluted mechanism here, there
clearly needs to be some mechanism for the members to elect new
directors should they feel it is required, but routinely doing this just
generates more paperwork to be filed with companies house each time.

Perhaps there needs to be a section 33 choice of removal of a director
by special resolution.


> - 35(d) London Hackspace uses a web based system for the decision
> making process - if we're not going to do the same, we should remove
> this clause
I think their clauses are too specific, i think it would be better to
use more ambiguous language that permits voting on resolutions without a
physical meeting as long as it is open to everyone of the appropriate
membership class, and is communicated (by whatever we have specified is
the offical communication channel) to them with reasonable notice. eg 10
days.






From welshbyte at sucs.org  Thu Oct 10 22:34:52 2013
From: welshbyte at sucs.org (Andrew Price)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 22:34:52 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Outreach letter
Message-ID: <52571D7C.8020901@sucs.org>

Hi all,

I've cobbled together a rough first draft of a generic mailing which we 
could send to people (local businesses, community groups, school staff, 
uni depts, etc.) to drum up interest in the hackspace. I'll keep the 
current version here:

http://sucs.org/~welshbyte/hsletter.txt

It's duplicated below for convenience of critique.

Cheers,
Andy


Dear Makers, Creators, Geeks and Tinkerers,

We (a group of enthusiasts and hobbyists based in and around Swansea) 
are in the process of setting up Swansea Hackspace and we'd like to 
invite you to get involved.

A hackspace - also known as a hacklab, makerspace, or hackerspace - is a 
community-run place where people with common creative interests can 
meet, socialise and collaborate. There are established hackspaces in 
London, Cardiff, Bristol, Manchester and other places in the UK as well 
as around the world.

Swansea Hackspace is still in its infancy and we have yet to find a 
physical space to use, so our current focus is to bring enthusiasts from 
around Swansea together to form a strong community and make establishing 
a hackspace worthwhile for all. There are currently no membership fees 
required and the number of people who get on board in this early stage 
will influence the initial price of membership once we get the space 
established.

We currently hold meet-ups every two weeks, alternating between social 
meetings where we get together and socialise, and technical meetings 
where we have talks and workshops to share what we love about our 
hobbies and projects. We heartily welcome you to join us, by joining our 
Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/SwanseaHackspace or by 
following our mailing list which is linked from our website at 
http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk where you'll also find the times and 
venues of upcoming meetings.

Please spread the word to friends, colleagues and anyone else you think 
would be interested. There is a web-based version of this mailing at 
[URL] so feel free to share the link.

We look forward to being creative with you!

Regards,

Swansea Hackspace



From gerrit.niezen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 09:12:52 2013
From: gerrit.niezen at gmail.com (Gerrit Niezen)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 09:12:52 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Outreach letter
In-Reply-To: <52571D7C.8020901@sucs.org>
References: <52571D7C.8020901@sucs.org>
Message-ID: <44BA5733-B8A4-4D0D-92D2-CBEA0CC2A417@gmail.com>

Hi Andy,

Thanks, I think it looks good. I would add something to the description of a hackspace about tools/equipment, to show it's not just about meetings/socialising, e.g.:

A hackspace provides access to tools and equipment for digital fabrication, like 3D printers, CNC routers and laser cutters. Members provide education and training to each other, sharing technical skills in areas like electronics or CAD model design.

Cheers,
Gerrit

On Oct 10, 2013, at 10:34 PM, Andrew Price wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I've cobbled together a rough first draft of a generic mailing which we could send to people (local businesses, community groups, school staff, uni depts, etc.) to drum up interest in the hackspace. I'll keep the current version here:
> 
> http://sucs.org/~welshbyte/hsletter.txt
> 
> It's duplicated below for convenience of critique.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy
> 
> 
> Dear Makers, Creators, Geeks and Tinkerers,
> 
> We (a group of enthusiasts and hobbyists based in and around Swansea) are in the process of setting up Swansea Hackspace and we'd like to invite you to get involved.
> 
> A hackspace - also known as a hacklab, makerspace, or hackerspace - is a community-run place where people with common creative interests can meet, socialise and collaborate. There are established hackspaces in London, Cardiff, Bristol, Manchester and other places in the UK as well as around the world.
> 
> Swansea Hackspace is still in its infancy and we have yet to find a physical space to use, so our current focus is to bring enthusiasts from around Swansea together to form a strong community and make establishing a hackspace worthwhile for all. There are currently no membership fees required and the number of people who get on board in this early stage will influence the initial price of membership once we get the space established.
> 
> We currently hold meet-ups every two weeks, alternating between social meetings where we get together and socialise, and technical meetings where we have talks and workshops to share what we love about our hobbies and projects. We heartily welcome you to join us, by joining our Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/SwanseaHackspace or by following our mailing list which is linked from our website at http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk where you'll also find the times and venues of upcoming meetings.
> 
> Please spread the word to friends, colleagues and anyone else you think would be interested. There is a web-based version of this mailing at [URL] so feel free to share the link.
> 
> We look forward to being creative with you!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Swansea Hackspace
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Hackspace mailing list
> Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace




From welshbyte at sucs.org  Fri Oct 11 11:12:50 2013
From: welshbyte at sucs.org (Andrew Price)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 11:12:50 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Outreach letter
In-Reply-To: <44BA5733-B8A4-4D0D-92D2-CBEA0CC2A417@gmail.com>
References: <52571D7C.8020901@sucs.org>
	<44BA5733-B8A4-4D0D-92D2-CBEA0CC2A417@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5257CF22.3030201@sucs.org>

Hi Gerrit,

On 11/10/13 09:12, Gerrit Niezen wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> Thanks, I think it looks good. I would add something to the description of a hackspace about tools/equipment, to show it's not just about meetings/socialising, e.g.:
>
> A hackspace provides access to tools and equipment for digital fabrication, like 3D printers, CNC routers and laser cutters. Members provide education and training to each other, sharing technical skills in areas like electronics or CAD model design.

Yes, I think it's definitely worth mentioning that the hackspace will 
have tools and equipment but I'd prefer to avoid including any 
exhaustive-sounding lists because it limits the kind of immediate 
interest we attract. The list above would surely be attractive to 
engineers and model builders but it would be a turn off to, say, people 
who work with textiles. I want it to appeal to as diverse a range of 
enthusiasts as possible.

However, I would like the landing web page linked from the mailing to 
have clear links to these kinds of details. Ideally I want readers to 
think, "This sounds interesting. I wonder what kind of equipment they 
will have. I'll look at the website and find out."

Updated letter below (2nd paragraph changed to mention tools and 
equipment; 4th paragraph changed to fix over-emphasis on socialising).

Thanks,
Andy


Dear Makers, Creators, Geeks and Tinkerers,

We (a group of enthusiasts and hobbyists based in and around Swansea) 
are in the process of setting up Swansea Hackspace and we'd like to 
invite you to get involved.

A hackspace - also known as a hacklab, makerspace, or hackerspace - is a 
community-run place where people with common creative interests can 
meet, socialise and collaborate using tools and equipment provided 
there. There are established hackspaces in London, Cardiff, Bristol, 
Manchester and other places in the UK as well as around the world.

Swansea Hackspace is still in its infancy and we have yet to find a 
physical space to use, so our current focus is to bring enthusiasts from 
around Swansea together to form a strong community and make establishing 
a hackspace worthwhile for all. There are currently no membership fees 
required and the number of people who get on board in this early stage 
will influence the initial price of membership once we get the space 
established.

We currently hold meet-ups every two weeks, alternating between social 
meet-ups, and technical meetings where we hold talks and workshops to 
learn, teach and share what we love about our hobbies and projects. We 
heartily welcome you to join us, by visiting our Facebook group at 
https://www.facebook.com/SwanseaHackspace or by following our mailing 
list which is linked from our website at http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk 
where you'll also find the times and venues of upcoming meetings.

Please spread the word to friends, colleagues and anyone else you think 
would be interested. There is a web-based version of this mailing at 
[URL] so feel free to share the link.

We look forward to being creative with you!

Regards,

Swansea Hackspace




From justin at discordia.org.uk  Fri Oct 11 12:28:52 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:28:52 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Outreach letter
In-Reply-To: <5257CF22.3030201@sucs.org>
References: <52571D7C.8020901@sucs.org>
	<44BA5733-B8A4-4D0D-92D2-CBEA0CC2A417@gmail.com>
	<5257CF22.3030201@sucs.org>
Message-ID: <1381490932.29975.17.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 11:12 +0100, Andrew Price wrote:

> Yes, I think it's definitely worth mentioning that the hackspace will 
> have tools and equipment but I'd prefer to avoid including any 
> exhaustive-sounding lists because it limits the kind of immediate 
> interest we attract.

It would be really great to see the group diversify into more artistic
areas; textiles, craft, jewellery, etc

My fear is that just now (more specifically: before we have a space)
that if we attract the attention of these people, they will look and see
that we don't have anything to offer them right now, and never come
back.

Once we have a space, and we can offer more* to people, i will be
amongst the first to push us to advertise far and wide and to be as
inclusive of other creative groups as possible.

* at the minimum a clear table and some space to work can be invaluable
to so many textile and other projects




From welshbyte at sucs.org  Fri Oct 11 12:50:06 2013
From: welshbyte at sucs.org (Andrew Price)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:50:06 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Outreach letter
In-Reply-To: <1381490932.29975.17.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
References: <52571D7C.8020901@sucs.org>
	<44BA5733-B8A4-4D0D-92D2-CBEA0CC2A417@gmail.com>
	<5257CF22.3030201@sucs.org>
	<1381490932.29975.17.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
Message-ID: <5257E5EE.6060405@sucs.org>

On 11/10/13 12:28, Justin Mitchell wrote:
> On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 11:12 +0100, Andrew Price wrote:
>
>> Yes, I think it's definitely worth mentioning that the hackspace will
>> have tools and equipment but I'd prefer to avoid including any
>> exhaustive-sounding lists because it limits the kind of immediate
>> interest we attract.
>
> It would be really great to see the group diversify into more artistic
> areas; textiles, craft, jewellery, etc
>
> My fear is that just now (more specifically: before we have a space)
> that if we attract the attention of these people, they will look and see
> that we don't have anything to offer them right now, and never come
> back.

Well this is why I'm trying to make it clear in the letter that we don't 
have a hackspace yet and that we're focusing on building a community 
rather than an us-and-them situation where one group has to provide a 
service to others.

If they're only interested in the physical hackspace then they can maybe 
watch for future developments and then get on board later but if they 
value interacting with people with common interests then we already have 
something to offer them.

> Once we have a space, and we can offer more* to people, i will be
> amongst the first to push us to advertise far and wide and to be as
> inclusive of other creative groups as possible.

I think it's worth being inclusive from the outset before we start to 
look like just an electronics/programming club. As long as we manage 
expectations well and don't make any promises we can't deliver it 
shouldn't do us any harm.

Andy



From gerrit.niezen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 15:46:06 2013
From: gerrit.niezen at gmail.com (Gerrit Niezen)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:46:06 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Potential new venue for meetings
Message-ID: <CAPqi54D0RDuBSHuTS-FV6iTtNMBWgepC5BzYRa2mjQ77g+DmGA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I had a meeting with Volcano Theatre Company (229 High Street) this
morning, and they have offered us use of their space for future hackspace
meetings. I approached Volcano specifically because I want to get a more
diverse group of people, especially artists, involved. Volcano is part of
the Swansea Creative Hub, and there are a number of art collectives/studios
nearby. I also want to avoid the perception that we're part of the
university, in order to make those not affiliated with Swansea University
feel more welcome.

Volcano is located in an area where we have a good chance of obtaining a
more permanent space in the future, so this could also be seen as a test to
see how easy it is for us to get to.

They are willing to host us for free for the next technical meeting on
Monday 4 November. There are couches, tables and chairs, but we'll have to
provide all our own equipment (including data projector if necessary).

Your comments are welcome.

Cheers,
Gerrit
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From paul at harwood-leon.com  Fri Oct 11 15:56:05 2013
From: paul at harwood-leon.com (Paul Harwood)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:56:05 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Potential new venue for meetings
In-Reply-To: <CAPqi54D0RDuBSHuTS-FV6iTtNMBWgepC5BzYRa2mjQ77g+DmGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPqi54D0RDuBSHuTS-FV6iTtNMBWgepC5BzYRa2mjQ77g+DmGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B2F92D6-5A9E-4E5C-90AE-932062959934@harwood-leon.com>

That's great.

Means I can attend.

I think the mix of people is a great idea. We are also launching the TechHub in november (we have 4000 sq ft in Wind Street) with a really good internet connection, so we will be just down the road. We will have the facilities there for meetings (projectors etc.) and we will be encouraging groups like hackspace to use the space for meetups and events like the Mini MakerFair in Bristol.

I know one of the artists that has taken some space upstairs in the Volcano space, which I guess would be a good space for hack events and meetings too. 

See you in November.

-- Paul

On 11 Oct 2013, at 15:46, Gerrit Niezen <gerrit.niezen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I had a meeting with Volcano Theatre Company (229 High Street) this morning, and they have offered us use of their space for future hackspace meetings. I approached Volcano specifically because I want to get a more diverse group of people, especially artists, involved. Volcano is part of the Swansea Creative Hub, and there are a number of art collectives/studios nearby. I also want to avoid the perception that we're part of the university, in order to make those not affiliated with Swansea University feel more welcome.
> 
> Volcano is located in an area where we have a good chance of obtaining a more permanent space in the future, so this could also be seen as a test to see how easy it is for us to get to.
> 
> They are willing to host us for free for the next technical meeting on Monday 4 November. There are couches, tables and chairs, but we'll have to provide all our own equipment (including data projector if necessary). 
> 
> Your comments are welcome.
> 
> Cheers,
> Gerrit
> _______________________________________________
> Hackspace mailing list
> Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace

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From alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk  Fri Oct 11 18:49:26 2013
From: alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 18:49:26 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Potential new venue for meetings
In-Reply-To: <CAPqi54D0RDuBSHuTS-FV6iTtNMBWgepC5BzYRa2mjQ77g+DmGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPqi54D0RDuBSHuTS-FV6iTtNMBWgepC5BzYRa2mjQ77g+DmGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131011184926.662ce81c@www.etchedpixels.co.uk>

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:46:06 +0100
Gerrit Niezen <gerrit.niezen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I had a meeting with Volcano Theatre Company (229 High Street) this
> morning, and they have offered us use of their space for future hackspace
> meetings. I approached Volcano specifically because I want to get a more
> diverse group of people, especially artists, involved. Volcano is part of
> the Swansea Creative Hub, and there are a number of art collectives/studios
> nearby. I also want to avoid the perception that we're part of the
> university, in order to make those not affiliated with Swansea University
> feel more welcome.

That seems a brilliant success to me

> Volcano is located in an area where we have a good chance of obtaining a
> more permanent space in the future, so this could also be seen as a test to
> see how easy it is for us to get to.
> 
> They are willing to host us for free for the next technical meeting on
> Monday 4 November. There are couches, tables and chairs, but we'll have to
> provide all our own equipment (including data projector if necessary).


I may actually be able to make that one and if need be I have a mini
portable projector. It's hardly cinemascope but it'll do for a small room
I would think.

Alan



From timmoore47 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 05:49:38 2013
From: timmoore47 at gmail.com (Tim Moore)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 05:49:38 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Re: Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <201310121100.r9CB04EU019219@stoneship.org.uk>
References: <201310121100.r9CB04EU019219@stoneship.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAAEY5oP2f0zC4S7pk-w0LEbVp=ZV6+KyHW2fR+7EFRL0wwb1TA@mail.gmail.com>

Off topic but this might be of interest:-

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/03/intel_seeks_slice_of_pi_with_arduinofriendly_galileo_board_computer/

UK price will have to be very low !  But Intel dpes npt nprmally do low !
*LOL*

Tim_1


On 12 October 2013 12:00, <hackspace-request at swansea.hackspace.org.uk>wrote:

> Send Hackspace mailing list submissions to
>         hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         hackspace-request at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         hackspace-owner at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Hackspace digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Outreach letter (Justin Mitchell)
>    2. Re: Outreach letter (Andrew Price)
>    3. Potential new venue for meetings (Gerrit Niezen)
>    4. Re: Potential new venue for meetings (Paul Harwood)
>    5. Re: Potential new venue for meetings (Alan Cox)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:28:52 +0100
> From: Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Outreach letter
> To: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <1381490932.29975.17.camel at justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 11:12 +0100, Andrew Price wrote:
>
> > Yes, I think it's definitely worth mentioning that the hackspace will
> > have tools and equipment but I'd prefer to avoid including any
> > exhaustive-sounding lists because it limits the kind of immediate
> > interest we attract.
>
> It would be really great to see the group diversify into more artistic
> areas; textiles, craft, jewellery, etc
>
> My fear is that just now (more specifically: before we have a space)
> that if we attract the attention of these people, they will look and see
> that we don't have anything to offer them right now, and never come
> back.
>
> Once we have a space, and we can offer more* to people, i will be
> amongst the first to push us to advertise far and wide and to be as
> inclusive of other creative groups as possible.
>
> * at the minimum a clear table and some space to work can be invaluable
> to so many textile and other projects
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:50:06 +0100
> From: Andrew Price <welshbyte at sucs.org>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Outreach letter
> To: Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> Cc: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <5257E5EE.6060405 at sucs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> On 11/10/13 12:28, Justin Mitchell wrote:
> > On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 11:12 +0100, Andrew Price wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, I think it's definitely worth mentioning that the hackspace will
> >> have tools and equipment but I'd prefer to avoid including any
> >> exhaustive-sounding lists because it limits the kind of immediate
> >> interest we attract.
> >
> > It would be really great to see the group diversify into more artistic
> > areas; textiles, craft, jewellery, etc
> >
> > My fear is that just now (more specifically: before we have a space)
> > that if we attract the attention of these people, they will look and see
> > that we don't have anything to offer them right now, and never come
> > back.
>
> Well this is why I'm trying to make it clear in the letter that we don't
> have a hackspace yet and that we're focusing on building a community
> rather than an us-and-them situation where one group has to provide a
> service to others.
>
> If they're only interested in the physical hackspace then they can maybe
> watch for future developments and then get on board later but if they
> value interacting with people with common interests then we already have
> something to offer them.
>
> > Once we have a space, and we can offer more* to people, i will be
> > amongst the first to push us to advertise far and wide and to be as
> > inclusive of other creative groups as possible.
>
> I think it's worth being inclusive from the outset before we start to
> look like just an electronics/programming club. As long as we manage
> expectations well and don't make any promises we can't deliver it
> shouldn't do us any harm.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:46:06 +0100
> From: Gerrit Niezen <gerrit.niezen at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Potential new venue for meetings
> To: "hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk"
>         <hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAPqi54D0RDuBSHuTS-FV6iTtNMBWgepC5BzYRa2mjQ77g+DmGA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi all,
>
> I had a meeting with Volcano Theatre Company (229 High Street) this
> morning, and they have offered us use of their space for future hackspace
> meetings. I approached Volcano specifically because I want to get a more
> diverse group of people, especially artists, involved. Volcano is part of
> the Swansea Creative Hub, and there are a number of art collectives/studios
> nearby. I also want to avoid the perception that we're part of the
> university, in order to make those not affiliated with Swansea University
> feel more welcome.
>
> Volcano is located in an area where we have a good chance of obtaining a
> more permanent space in the future, so this could also be seen as a test to
> see how easy it is for us to get to.
>
> They are willing to host us for free for the next technical meeting on
> Monday 4 November. There are couches, tables and chairs, but we'll have to
> provide all our own equipment (including data projector if necessary).
>
> Your comments are welcome.
>
> Cheers,
> Gerrit
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:56:05 +0100
> From: Paul Harwood <paul at harwood-leon.com>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Potential new venue for meetings
> To: "hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk"
>         <hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <9B2F92D6-5A9E-4E5C-90AE-932062959934 at harwood-leon.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> That's great.
>
> Means I can attend.
>
> I think the mix of people is a great idea. We are also launching the
> TechHub in november (we have 4000 sq ft in Wind Street) with a really good
> internet connection, so we will be just down the road. We will have the
> facilities there for meetings (projectors etc.) and we will be encouraging
> groups like hackspace to use the space for meetups and events like the Mini
> MakerFair in Bristol.
>
> I know one of the artists that has taken some space upstairs in the
> Volcano space, which I guess would be a good space for hack events and
> meetings too.
>
> See you in November.
>
> -- Paul
>
> On 11 Oct 2013, at 15:46, Gerrit Niezen <gerrit.niezen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I had a meeting with Volcano Theatre Company (229 High Street) this
> morning, and they have offered us use of their space for future hackspace
> meetings. I approached Volcano specifically because I want to get a more
> diverse group of people, especially artists, involved. Volcano is part of
> the Swansea Creative Hub, and there are a number of art collectives/studios
> nearby. I also want to avoid the perception that we're part of the
> university, in order to make those not affiliated with Swansea University
> feel more welcome.
> >
> > Volcano is located in an area where we have a good chance of obtaining a
> more permanent space in the future, so this could also be seen as a test to
> see how easy it is for us to get to.
> >
> > They are willing to host us for free for the next technical meeting on
> Monday 4 November. There are couches, tables and chairs, but we'll have to
> provide all our own equipment (including data projector if necessary).
> >
> > Your comments are welcome.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Gerrit
> > _______________________________________________
> > Hackspace mailing list
> > Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> > http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 18:49:26 +0100
> From: Alan Cox <alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Potential new venue for meetings
> To: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <20131011184926.662ce81c at www.etchedpixels.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:46:06 +0100
> Gerrit Niezen <gerrit.niezen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I had a meeting with Volcano Theatre Company (229 High Street) this
> > morning, and they have offered us use of their space for future hackspace
> > meetings. I approached Volcano specifically because I want to get a more
> > diverse group of people, especially artists, involved. Volcano is part of
> > the Swansea Creative Hub, and there are a number of art
> collectives/studios
> > nearby. I also want to avoid the perception that we're part of the
> > university, in order to make those not affiliated with Swansea University
> > feel more welcome.
>
> That seems a brilliant success to me
>
> > Volcano is located in an area where we have a good chance of obtaining a
> > more permanent space in the future, so this could also be seen as a test
> to
> > see how easy it is for us to get to.
> >
> > They are willing to host us for free for the next technical meeting on
> > Monday 4 November. There are couches, tables and chairs, but we'll have
> to
> > provide all our own equipment (including data projector if necessary).
>
>
> I may actually be able to make that one and if need be I have a mini
> portable projector. It's hardly cinemascope but it'll do for a small room
> I would think.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hackspace mailing list
> Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
>
>
> End of Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 6
> ****************************************
>
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From alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk  Mon Oct 14 11:18:02 2013
From: alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:18:02 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Re: Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <CAAEY5oP2f0zC4S7pk-w0LEbVp=ZV6+KyHW2fR+7EFRL0wwb1TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201310121100.r9CB04EU019219@stoneship.org.uk>
	<CAAEY5oP2f0zC4S7pk-w0LEbVp=ZV6+KyHW2fR+7EFRL0wwb1TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131014111802.68fee9d9@www.etchedpixels.co.uk>

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 05:49:38 +0100
Tim Moore <timmoore47 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Off topic but this might be of interest:-
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/03/intel_seeks_slice_of_pi_with_arduinofriendly_galileo_board_computer/
> 
> UK price will have to be very low !  But Intel dpes npt nprmally do low !

You read it in the Daily Ma^WRegister..

Galileo is not about being a PI clone. It's a dev board (so will be
pricier anyway) so people can bootstrap building devices using the new
32bit x86 processor design. It may eventually lead to low end PI like
devices and Linux taking over your washing machine of course 8)

Architectually its also very different to PI and aimed at a different
world. For example its got floating point but doesn't have video.

Alan



From steve at chygwyn.com  Mon Oct 14 11:39:36 2013
From: steve at chygwyn.com (Steven Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:39:36 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] IET Talk: Science of Armageddon (14th November)
Message-ID: <1381747176.2720.28.camel@menhir>

Hi,

This may be of interest to those of you on this list. On 14th November,
Jay Tate, FRAS, Director of the Spaceguard Centre will be giving a talk
to the IET. The talk will be on the subject of the threat to the earth
from Near Earth objects (NEOs) and what can/is/should be done about
them.

The talk is FREE to all, and everybody is welcome, whether IET members
or not. Refreshments and networking before lecture: 7:00pm, Lecture
itself starts at 7:45pm. Location is Faraday Lecture Theatre A, Swansea
University.

If you are thinking of coming, please do register here:
http://www.theiet.org/events/local/188232.cfm
so that the organisers know roughly how many people are coming, however
it is not essential to register beforehand.

Those of you who have visited Spaceguard will also know that Jay is a
very knowledgeable and entertaining speaker. The current project
(Project Drax - and yes, it is named after a Bond villain!) at
Spaceguard is to build and install a schmidt camera (telescope) which
has been donated to them by Cambridge University. When working this will
be the largest telescope in Wales,

Steve.





From napalmllama at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 12:30:56 2013
From: napalmllama at gmail.com (Tom Lloyd)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 12:30:56 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] IET Talk: Science of Armageddon (14th
	November)
In-Reply-To: <1381747176.2720.28.camel@menhir>
References: <1381747176.2720.28.camel@menhir>
Message-ID: <CAF85AwUa37vtWMG1e6BLb1pzqO_Na+YSqKU=XBjjw0otEXEpnA@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds interesting, I'll be there.

Tom


On 14 October 2013 11:39, Steven Whitehouse <steve at chygwyn.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This may be of interest to those of you on this list. On 14th November,
> Jay Tate, FRAS, Director of the Spaceguard Centre will be giving a talk
> to the IET. The talk will be on the subject of the threat to the earth
> from Near Earth objects (NEOs) and what can/is/should be done about
> them.
>
> The talk is FREE to all, and everybody is welcome, whether IET members
> or not. Refreshments and networking before lecture: 7:00pm, Lecture
> itself starts at 7:45pm. Location is Faraday Lecture Theatre A, Swansea
> University.
>
> If you are thinking of coming, please do register here:
> http://www.theiet.org/events/local/188232.cfm
> so that the organisers know roughly how many people are coming, however
> it is not essential to register beforehand.
>
> Those of you who have visited Spaceguard will also know that Jay is a
> very knowledgeable and entertaining speaker. The current project
> (Project Drax - and yes, it is named after a Bond villain!) at
> Spaceguard is to build and install a schmidt camera (telescope) which
> has been donated to them by Cambridge University. When working this will
> be the largest telescope in Wales,
>
> Steve.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hackspace mailing list
> Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
>
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From gerrit.niezen at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 20:02:59 2013
From: gerrit.niezen at gmail.com (Gerrit Niezen)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:02:59 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association,
	or the constitution of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
Message-ID: <A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>


> a quorum of 10 members, or 50% of the current membership, whichever is
> the smaller.

I've changed the draft to reflect this.

> 
>> - 24(b) "the number of directors shall not be less than three, nor
>> more than nine" - I think we could change this to a minimum of two,
>> but then we need to modify (26) as well
> 
> I am unsure why they have quite such a convoluted mechanism here, there
> clearly needs to be some mechanism for the members to elect new
> directors should they feel it is required, but routinely doing this just
> generates more paperwork to be filed with companies house each time.
> 

I think this is intended just to give the opportunity for members to choose new directors at the AGM, but usually the same directors would be re-elected. I remember Tom Lake mentioning this at the last meeting, maybe he could give some clarification?

> 
>> - 35(d) London Hackspace uses a web based system for the decision
>> making process - if we're not going to do the same, we should remove
>> this clause
> I think their clauses are too specific, i think it would be better to
> use more ambiguous language that permits voting on resolutions without a
> physical meeting as long as it is open to everyone of the appropriate
> membership class, and is communicated (by whatever we have specified is
> the offical communication channel) to them with reasonable notice. eg 10
> days.
> 

I've sent an e-mail to One Click Orgs to find out if they are willing to provide us with a similar Governance system.

Please everyone, if you want to comment or give feedback, now is your chance! :) The direct link to the latest version of the draft is here (.pdf): 
https://github.com/swanseahackspace/documentation/blob/master/constitution/articles.pdf?raw=true



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From tswsl1989 at sucs.org  Thu Oct 17 14:56:25 2013
From: tswsl1989 at sucs.org (Tom Lake)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:56:25 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the constitution
	of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>


On 14/10/2013 20:02, Gerrit Niezen wrote:
>>> - 24(b) "the number of directors shall not be less than three,
>>> nor more than nine" - I think we could change this to a minimum
>>> of two, but then we need to modify (26) as well
>>
>> I am unsure why they have quite such a convoluted mechanism here,
>> there clearly needs to be some mechanism for the members to elect
>> new directors should they feel it is required, but routinely doing
>>  this just generates more paperwork to be filed with companies
>> house each time.
Giving a range is usual as it means that the board isn't
paralysed as soon as one of the directors resigns.

The section about rotation is a little further down:

[snip details re: first AGM]
At each subsequent annual general meeting one-third of the directors or,
if their number is not three or a multiple of three, the number nearest
to one-third, must retire from office. If there is only one director he
or she must retire.

As I understand it, if a director is required to resign and is then 
re-elected, there's no need to file paperwork with companies house, as 
their appointment as director never actually terminated.
It also provides the only way for the membership to appoint new 
directors if the cap above has been filled - unless you were suggesting 
removing the cap on the number of directors Justin?

The timings on the process to nominate a new director could do with 
looking at. Do we want adjust the process to allow people to nominate 
themselves?


Tom




From justin at discordia.org.uk  Thu Oct 17 15:22:09 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 15:22:09 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
	constitution of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>
	<525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>
Message-ID: <1382019729.28038.11.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

On Thu, 2013-10-17 at 14:56 +0100, Tom Lake wrote:
> On 14/10/2013 20:02, Gerrit Niezen wrote:
> >>> - 24(b) "the number of directors shall not be less than three,
> >>> nor more than nine" - I think we could change this to a minimum
> >>> of two, but then we need to modify (26) as well
> >>
> >> I am unsure why they have quite such a convoluted mechanism here,
> >> there clearly needs to be some mechanism for the members to elect
> >> new directors should they feel it is required, but routinely doing
> >>  this just generates more paperwork to be filed with companies
> >> house each time.
> Giving a range is usual as it means that the board isn't
> paralysed as soon as one of the directors resigns.
> 
> The section about rotation is a little further down:
> 
> [snip details re: first AGM]
> At each subsequent annual general meeting one-third of the directors or,
> if their number is not three or a multiple of three, the number nearest
> to one-third, must retire from office. If there is only one director he
> or she must retire.
> 
> As I understand it, if a director is required to resign and is then 
> re-elected, there's no need to file paperwork with companies house, as 
> their appointment as director never actually terminated.
> It also provides the only way for the membership to appoint new 
> directors if the cap above has been filled - unless you were suggesting 
> removing the cap on the number of directors Justin?
> 
> The timings on the process to nominate a new director could do with 
> looking at. Do we want adjust the process to allow people to nominate 
> themselves?

My intention was that rather than forcing this to happen every year,
that the membership could force an election when it needed to.

I am not convinced that conflating company director with the role of day
to day management is such a good idea, in the short term they are likely
to be the same people, but not in a long-term democratic structure.

a company director has legal responsibilities, your details go on public
record, there are potentially tax issues, and there are legal
restrictions on who can be a director etc, hence the need to file with
companies house with every change.

I don't see that as being compatible with the 'everyone can have a go'
management structure that forced yearly elections implies.

Does that make sense ?





From justin at discordia.org.uk  Thu Oct 17 16:51:00 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:51:00 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
	constitution of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <526001EB.5050108@sucs.org>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>
	<525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>
	<1382019729.28038.11.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<526001EB.5050108@sucs.org>
Message-ID: <1382025060.28038.25.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

On Thu, 2013-10-17 at 16:27 +0100, Tom Lake wrote:
> On 17/10/2013 15:22, Justin Mitchell wrote:
> > Does that make sense ?
> Not entirely. Given that the directors are legally responsible for the 
> company, at the very least I'd have said they're going to need to be 
> aware of the day to day operations of the hackspace. Whether there are 
> other people who have day to day responsibilities is a seperate question.

Any directors would need to be a part of "the board" or whatever
decision making apparatus there is, and thus in the loop with all the
decisions, but that doesn't mean they would have ultimate power.

> As far as the rotation is concerned, the current articles imply that we 
> will hold an annual general meeting, and in that case I certainly prefer 
> that there is an opportunity for a certain number of directors to be 
> replaced if the members wish to do so - even if the expectation is that 
> the "resigning" directors are re-appointed at that meeting. In an ideal 
> scenario, everyone is happy with the directors that are in place and 
> business continues as normal.
If this a reasonable assumption to make, then fair enough, but if the
intent was that the directors changed every year then i could see it
being an issue.

> 
> If we're not going to have a formal AGM each year then we need to check 
> that's acceptable under the current legislation, and if so remove the 
> remaining references to it from the articles. In that instance, you may 
> as well remove the requirement for the directors to resign by rotation.
I seem to recall that the AGM is a non-negotiable requirement, and its
typical that the articles include stuff about circulating the accounts
at the AGM and so on. 

Ah, it seems that as of 2006 companies act it is no longer a requirement
to hold an AGM if the Articles say it isnt. The articles can also state
that circulation of accounts etc will be electronic.

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/ca_gba7.shtml

I also note it says that resolutions can now be passed either "At a
meeting of members" , or by "A written resolution, this can be
circulated and agreed to electronically or by hard copy."

So as long as our articles permit it, everything can be done
electronically, except for "A resolution to remove a director,"


so i would be careful of the clause that specified some specific website
to do voting etc via, as that would be artificially limiting.





From tswsl1989 at sucs.org  Thu Oct 17 17:12:03 2013
From: tswsl1989 at sucs.org (Tom Lake)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:12:03 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the constitution
	of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <1382025060.28038.25.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>	<525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>	<1382019729.28038.11.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>	<526001EB.5050108@sucs.org>
	<1382025060.28038.25.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
Message-ID: <52600C53.2050205@sucs.org>

(Apologies for my last reply being off list - unintentional)

On 17/10/2013 16:51, Justin Mitchell wrote:
>> As far as the rotation is concerned, the current articles imply
>> that we will hold an annual general meeting, and in that case I
>> certainly prefer that there is an opportunity for a certain number
>> of directors to be replaced if the members wish to do so - even if
>> the expectation is that the "resigning" directors are re-appointed
>> at that meeting. In an ideal scenario, everyone is happy with the
>> directors that are in place and business continues as normal.
> If this a reasonable assumption to make, then fair enough, but if
> the intent was that the directors changed every year then i could see
> it being an issue.
Based on other organisations, I would say it's a very reasonable
assumption to make. Depends how irritated people get with the directors :-)

> Ah, it seems that as of 2006 companies act it is no longer a
> requirement to hold an AGM if the Articles say it isnt. The articles
> can also state that circulation of accounts etc will be electronic.
>
> http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/ca_gba7.shtml

Then whether or not to hold an AGM should probably be something we
decided on now rather than later.

> I also note it says that resolutions can now be passed either "At a
> meeting of members" , or by "A written resolution, this can be
> circulated and agreed to electronically or by hard copy."
>
> So as long as our articles permit it, everything can be done
> electronically, except for "A resolution to remove a director,"

> so i would be careful of the clause that specified some specific
> website to do voting etc via, as that would be artificially
> limiting.
Agreed. I also don't particularly like the idea of tieing us to a 
particular service in the articles.

Tom



From napalmllama at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 17:39:21 2013
From: napalmllama at gmail.com (Tom Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:39:21 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the constitution
	of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <52600C53.2050205@sucs.org>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>
	<525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>
	<1382019729.28038.11.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<526001EB.5050108@sucs.org>
	<1382025060.28038.25.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<52600C53.2050205@sucs.org>
Message-ID: <CAF85AwV_zYcZ7E6j_eeiLVoSrc5f3s2kXDKcLuRZT0fKwaQswA@mail.gmail.com>

One thing to add. If the directors are legally responsible for the
organisation, then between them they should have a controlling share of the
votes, or at least some form of veto.
Imagine a vote on "let's not bother with health and safety." It's
conceivably that the majority could vote for this, because H&S is a pain.
But the directors have significant personal liability if the organisation
e.g. kills someone. Because of this, they need the power to
a) stop resolutions which are downright stupid and
b) protect themselves from resolutions which could result in them being
personally fined or going to jail.

--Tom Lloyd

On 17 Oct 2013 17:12, "Tom Lake" <tswsl1989 at sucs.org> wrote:
>
> (Apologies for my last reply being off list - unintentional)
>
>
> On 17/10/2013 16:51, Justin Mitchell wrote:
>>>
>>> As far as the rotation is concerned, the current articles imply
>>> that we will hold an annual general meeting, and in that case I
>>> certainly prefer that there is an opportunity for a certain number
>>> of directors to be replaced if the members wish to do so - even if
>>> the expectation is that the "resigning" directors are re-appointed
>>> at that meeting. In an ideal scenario, everyone is happy with the
>>> directors that are in place and business continues as normal.
>>
>> If this a reasonable assumption to make, then fair enough, but if
>> the intent was that the directors changed every year then i could see
>> it being an issue.
>
> Based on other organisations, I would say it's a very reasonable
> assumption to make. Depends how irritated people get with the directors
:-)
>
>
>> Ah, it seems that as of 2006 companies act it is no longer a
>> requirement to hold an AGM if the Articles say it isnt. The articles
>> can also state that circulation of accounts etc will be electronic.
>>
>> http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/ca_gba7.shtml
>
>
> Then whether or not to hold an AGM should probably be something we
> decided on now rather than later.
>
>
>> I also note it says that resolutions can now be passed either "At a
>> meeting of members" , or by "A written resolution, this can be
>> circulated and agreed to electronically or by hard copy."
>>
>> So as long as our articles permit it, everything can be done
>> electronically, except for "A resolution to remove a director,"
>
>
>> so i would be careful of the clause that specified some specific
>> website to do voting etc via, as that would be artificially
>> limiting.
>
> Agreed. I also don't particularly like the idea of tieing us to a
particular service in the articles.
>
> Tom
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hackspace mailing list
> Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
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From alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk  Thu Oct 17 18:56:19 2013
From: alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk (Alan Cox)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 18:56:19 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
	constitution of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <CAF85AwV_zYcZ7E6j_eeiLVoSrc5f3s2kXDKcLuRZT0fKwaQswA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>
	<525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>
	<1382019729.28038.11.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<526001EB.5050108@sucs.org>
	<1382025060.28038.25.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<52600C53.2050205@sucs.org>
	<CAF85AwV_zYcZ7E6j_eeiLVoSrc5f3s2kXDKcLuRZT0fKwaQswA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131017185619.29b3488e@www.etchedpixels.co.uk>

On Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:39:21 +0100
Tom Lloyd <napalmllama at gmail.com> wrote:

> One thing to add. If the directors are legally responsible for the
> organisation, then between them they should have a controlling share of the
> votes, or at least some form of veto.

The company secretary is ultimately liable for most of the duties of the
company being performed, that includes being responsible for

- the annual filings (and fees) to companies house

- the maintenance of the registered office of the company

- informing companies house of any changes of appointments, share
  allocations, etc and paying the appropriate fees

- arranging the board meetings

- arranging an AGM if requested

by convention (but not I believe in law)

- keeping the company articles safe
- maintaining the stock certificates and transfers
- holding the seal

(for the obvious reason they have to do all the companies house stuff)

The directors have responsibilities but they are only liable to the limit
of the guarantee unless they did something stupid, and for the
stupid-but-accidental case you definitely want to carry cover as
part of the overall insurance.

If the directors did act like idiots then in many cases the *entire
membership* is jointly liable not just the directors. There are obvious
reasons for that too - members can't be allowed to intentionally elect a
couple of dubious figures to run a dodgy business then wash their hands
of them when they vanish and the members pocket all the loot.

You also need to make sure you've got a suitable pet accountant to file
CT600 and all the returns paperwork (and pay the fees for them all)

There are some other fun gotchas to be aware of as well. A big one
several societies hit with a nasty crunch when HMRC started checking up
is that if the organisation creates stuff and trades it inside of the
membership it can with care be "trading mutually" and generally exempt
from corporation tax, but sell one pencil to a non-member and the entire
house of cards crashes down!

Alan



From justin at discordia.org.uk  Thu Oct 17 19:58:31 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 19:58:31 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
	constitution of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <20131017185619.29b3488e@www.etchedpixels.co.uk>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>
	<525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>
	<1382019729.28038.11.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<526001EB.5050108@sucs.org>
	<1382025060.28038.25.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<52600C53.2050205@sucs.org>
	<CAF85AwV_zYcZ7E6j_eeiLVoSrc5f3s2kXDKcLuRZT0fKwaQswA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20131017185619.29b3488e@www.etchedpixels.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1382036311.19149.10.camel@emerald.geode.org.uk>

On Thu, 2013-10-17 at 18:56 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:39:21 +0100
> Tom Lloyd <napalmllama at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > One thing to add. If the directors are legally responsible for the
> > organisation, then between them they should have a controlling share of the
> > votes, or at least some form of veto.
> 
> The company secretary is ultimately liable for most of the duties of the
> company being performed, that includes being responsible for

Company law has simplified over time, a private limited company does not
require a company secretary, just one Director is sufficient now.

It is the responsibility of the Director(s) to make sure the accounts
and returns are filed.

> You also need to make sure you've got a suitable pet accountant to file
> CT600 and all the returns paperwork (and pay the fees for them all)

small to medium companies are exempt from the audit requirements, so
company accounts can be done yourself, no professionals required, the
current online filing system has a fairly simple pdf that you fill out
the boxes and submit to both companies house and hmrc and takes care of
your annual accounts and corporation tax in one go.

filing your annual return via the website is ?13 a year.


> There are some other fun gotchas to be aware of as well. A big one
> several societies hit with a nasty crunch when HMRC started checking up
> is that if the organisation creates stuff and trades it inside of the
> membership it can with care be "trading mutually" and generally exempt
> from corporation tax, but sell one pencil to a non-member and the entire
> house of cards crashes down!

They have tried to simplify it so that filing tax returns isnt so
complex anymore, but the real trick is make sure you dont make a
profit :)


The paperwork required all looks very daunting, but its not all that
complex really.





From timmoore47 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 12:23:41 2013
From: timmoore47 at gmail.com (Tim Moore)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 12:23:41 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Re: Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <201310171859.r9HIx3PH014333@stoneship.org.uk>
References: <201310171859.r9HIx3PH014333@stoneship.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAAEY5oO2pvwovhP6Hxgjkct6j5wC81RBcBbnwZ5XTueRVkkexw@mail.gmail.com>

Off topic:-

I may be a bit dim on this but one of the 16F1455 projects requires a file
called system.h

Is that downloadable from anywhere ?

A puzzled,

Tim_1


On 17 October 2013 19:59, <hackspace-request at swansea.hackspace.org.uk>wrote:

> Send Hackspace mailing list submissions to
>         hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         hackspace-request at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         hackspace-owner at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Hackspace digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Articles of association, or the constitution  of our
>       hackspace (Tom Lake)
>    2. Re: Articles of association, or the       constitution of our
>       hackspace (Justin Mitchell)
>    3. Re: Articles of association, or the       constitution of our
>       hackspace (Justin Mitchell)
>    4. Re: Articles of association, or the constitution  of our
>       hackspace (Tom Lake)
>    5. Re: Articles of association, or the constitution  of our
>       hackspace (Tom Lloyd)
>    6. Re: Articles of association, or the       constitution of our
>       hackspace (Alan Cox)
>    7. Re: Articles of association, or the       constitution of our
>       hackspace (Justin Mitchell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:56:25 +0100
> From: Tom Lake <tswsl1989 at sucs.org>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
>         constitution    of our hackspace
> To: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <525FEC89.1080504 at sucs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> On 14/10/2013 20:02, Gerrit Niezen wrote:
> >>> - 24(b) "the number of directors shall not be less than three,
> >>> nor more than nine" - I think we could change this to a minimum
> >>> of two, but then we need to modify (26) as well
> >>
> >> I am unsure why they have quite such a convoluted mechanism here,
> >> there clearly needs to be some mechanism for the members to elect
> >> new directors should they feel it is required, but routinely doing
> >>  this just generates more paperwork to be filed with companies
> >> house each time.
> Giving a range is usual as it means that the board isn't
> paralysed as soon as one of the directors resigns.
>
> The section about rotation is a little further down:
>
> [snip details re: first AGM]
> At each subsequent annual general meeting one-third of the directors or,
> if their number is not three or a multiple of three, the number nearest
> to one-third, must retire from office. If there is only one director he
> or she must retire.
>
> As I understand it, if a director is required to resign and is then
> re-elected, there's no need to file paperwork with companies house, as
> their appointment as director never actually terminated.
> It also provides the only way for the membership to appoint new
> directors if the cap above has been filled - unless you were suggesting
> removing the cap on the number of directors Justin?
>
> The timings on the process to nominate a new director could do with
> looking at. Do we want adjust the process to allow people to nominate
> themselves?
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 15:22:09 +0100
> From: Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
>         constitution of our hackspace
> To: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <1382019729.28038.11.camel at justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Thu, 2013-10-17 at 14:56 +0100, Tom Lake wrote:
> > On 14/10/2013 20:02, Gerrit Niezen wrote:
> > >>> - 24(b) "the number of directors shall not be less than three,
> > >>> nor more than nine" - I think we could change this to a minimum
> > >>> of two, but then we need to modify (26) as well
> > >>
> > >> I am unsure why they have quite such a convoluted mechanism here,
> > >> there clearly needs to be some mechanism for the members to elect
> > >> new directors should they feel it is required, but routinely doing
> > >>  this just generates more paperwork to be filed with companies
> > >> house each time.
> > Giving a range is usual as it means that the board isn't
> > paralysed as soon as one of the directors resigns.
> >
> > The section about rotation is a little further down:
> >
> > [snip details re: first AGM]
> > At each subsequent annual general meeting one-third of the directors or,
> > if their number is not three or a multiple of three, the number nearest
> > to one-third, must retire from office. If there is only one director he
> > or she must retire.
> >
> > As I understand it, if a director is required to resign and is then
> > re-elected, there's no need to file paperwork with companies house, as
> > their appointment as director never actually terminated.
> > It also provides the only way for the membership to appoint new
> > directors if the cap above has been filled - unless you were suggesting
> > removing the cap on the number of directors Justin?
> >
> > The timings on the process to nominate a new director could do with
> > looking at. Do we want adjust the process to allow people to nominate
> > themselves?
>
> My intention was that rather than forcing this to happen every year,
> that the membership could force an election when it needed to.
>
> I am not convinced that conflating company director with the role of day
> to day management is such a good idea, in the short term they are likely
> to be the same people, but not in a long-term democratic structure.
>
> a company director has legal responsibilities, your details go on public
> record, there are potentially tax issues, and there are legal
> restrictions on who can be a director etc, hence the need to file with
> companies house with every change.
>
> I don't see that as being compatible with the 'everyone can have a go'
> management structure that forced yearly elections implies.
>
> Does that make sense ?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:51:00 +0100
> From: Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
>         constitution of our hackspace
> To: hackspace <hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <1382025060.28038.25.camel at justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Thu, 2013-10-17 at 16:27 +0100, Tom Lake wrote:
> > On 17/10/2013 15:22, Justin Mitchell wrote:
> > > Does that make sense ?
> > Not entirely. Given that the directors are legally responsible for the
> > company, at the very least I'd have said they're going to need to be
> > aware of the day to day operations of the hackspace. Whether there are
> > other people who have day to day responsibilities is a seperate question.
>
> Any directors would need to be a part of "the board" or whatever
> decision making apparatus there is, and thus in the loop with all the
> decisions, but that doesn't mean they would have ultimate power.
>
> > As far as the rotation is concerned, the current articles imply that we
> > will hold an annual general meeting, and in that case I certainly prefer
> > that there is an opportunity for a certain number of directors to be
> > replaced if the members wish to do so - even if the expectation is that
> > the "resigning" directors are re-appointed at that meeting. In an ideal
> > scenario, everyone is happy with the directors that are in place and
> > business continues as normal.
> If this a reasonable assumption to make, then fair enough, but if the
> intent was that the directors changed every year then i could see it
> being an issue.
>
> >
> > If we're not going to have a formal AGM each year then we need to check
> > that's acceptable under the current legislation, and if so remove the
> > remaining references to it from the articles. In that instance, you may
> > as well remove the requirement for the directors to resign by rotation.
> I seem to recall that the AGM is a non-negotiable requirement, and its
> typical that the articles include stuff about circulating the accounts
> at the AGM and so on.
>
> Ah, it seems that as of 2006 companies act it is no longer a requirement
> to hold an AGM if the Articles say it isnt. The articles can also state
> that circulation of accounts etc will be electronic.
>
> http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/ca_gba7.shtml
>
> I also note it says that resolutions can now be passed either "At a
> meeting of members" , or by "A written resolution, this can be
> circulated and agreed to electronically or by hard copy."
>
> So as long as our articles permit it, everything can be done
> electronically, except for "A resolution to remove a director,"
>
>
> so i would be careful of the clause that specified some specific website
> to do voting etc via, as that would be artificially limiting.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:12:03 +0100
> From: Tom Lake <tswsl1989 at sucs.org>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
>         constitution    of our hackspace
> To: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <52600C53.2050205 at sucs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> (Apologies for my last reply being off list - unintentional)
>
> On 17/10/2013 16:51, Justin Mitchell wrote:
> >> As far as the rotation is concerned, the current articles imply
> >> that we will hold an annual general meeting, and in that case I
> >> certainly prefer that there is an opportunity for a certain number
> >> of directors to be replaced if the members wish to do so - even if
> >> the expectation is that the "resigning" directors are re-appointed
> >> at that meeting. In an ideal scenario, everyone is happy with the
> >> directors that are in place and business continues as normal.
> > If this a reasonable assumption to make, then fair enough, but if
> > the intent was that the directors changed every year then i could see
> > it being an issue.
> Based on other organisations, I would say it's a very reasonable
> assumption to make. Depends how irritated people get with the directors :-)
>
> > Ah, it seems that as of 2006 companies act it is no longer a
> > requirement to hold an AGM if the Articles say it isnt. The articles
> > can also state that circulation of accounts etc will be electronic.
> >
> > http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/ca_gba7.shtml
>
> Then whether or not to hold an AGM should probably be something we
> decided on now rather than later.
>
> > I also note it says that resolutions can now be passed either "At a
> > meeting of members" , or by "A written resolution, this can be
> > circulated and agreed to electronically or by hard copy."
> >
> > So as long as our articles permit it, everything can be done
> > electronically, except for "A resolution to remove a director,"
>
> > so i would be careful of the clause that specified some specific
> > website to do voting etc via, as that would be artificially
> > limiting.
> Agreed. I also don't particularly like the idea of tieing us to a
> particular service in the articles.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:39:21 +0100
> From: Tom Lloyd <napalmllama at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
>         constitution    of our hackspace
> To: Tom Lake <tswsl1989 at sucs.org>
> Cc: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAF85AwV_zYcZ7E6j_eeiLVoSrc5f3s2kXDKcLuRZT0fKwaQswA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> One thing to add. If the directors are legally responsible for the
> organisation, then between them they should have a controlling share of the
> votes, or at least some form of veto.
> Imagine a vote on "let's not bother with health and safety." It's
> conceivably that the majority could vote for this, because H&S is a pain.
> But the directors have significant personal liability if the organisation
> e.g. kills someone. Because of this, they need the power to
> a) stop resolutions which are downright stupid and
> b) protect themselves from resolutions which could result in them being
> personally fined or going to jail.
>
> --Tom Lloyd
>
> On 17 Oct 2013 17:12, "Tom Lake" <tswsl1989 at sucs.org> wrote:
> >
> > (Apologies for my last reply being off list - unintentional)
> >
> >
> > On 17/10/2013 16:51, Justin Mitchell wrote:
> >>>
> >>> As far as the rotation is concerned, the current articles imply
> >>> that we will hold an annual general meeting, and in that case I
> >>> certainly prefer that there is an opportunity for a certain number
> >>> of directors to be replaced if the members wish to do so - even if
> >>> the expectation is that the "resigning" directors are re-appointed
> >>> at that meeting. In an ideal scenario, everyone is happy with the
> >>> directors that are in place and business continues as normal.
> >>
> >> If this a reasonable assumption to make, then fair enough, but if
> >> the intent was that the directors changed every year then i could see
> >> it being an issue.
> >
> > Based on other organisations, I would say it's a very reasonable
> > assumption to make. Depends how irritated people get with the directors
> :-)
> >
> >
> >> Ah, it seems that as of 2006 companies act it is no longer a
> >> requirement to hold an AGM if the Articles say it isnt. The articles
> >> can also state that circulation of accounts etc will be electronic.
> >>
> >> http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/ca_gba7.shtml
> >
> >
> > Then whether or not to hold an AGM should probably be something we
> > decided on now rather than later.
> >
> >
> >> I also note it says that resolutions can now be passed either "At a
> >> meeting of members" , or by "A written resolution, this can be
> >> circulated and agreed to electronically or by hard copy."
> >>
> >> So as long as our articles permit it, everything can be done
> >> electronically, except for "A resolution to remove a director,"
> >
> >
> >> so i would be careful of the clause that specified some specific
> >> website to do voting etc via, as that would be artificially
> >> limiting.
> >
> > Agreed. I also don't particularly like the idea of tieing us to a
> particular service in the articles.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Hackspace mailing list
> > Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> > http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 18:56:19 +0100
> From: Alan Cox <alan at lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
>         constitution of our hackspace
> To: Tom Lloyd <napalmllama at gmail.com>
> Cc: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <20131017185619.29b3488e at www.etchedpixels.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:39:21 +0100
> Tom Lloyd <napalmllama at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > One thing to add. If the directors are legally responsible for the
> > organisation, then between them they should have a controlling share of
> the
> > votes, or at least some form of veto.
>
> The company secretary is ultimately liable for most of the duties of the
> company being performed, that includes being responsible for
>
> - the annual filings (and fees) to companies house
>
> - the maintenance of the registered office of the company
>
> - informing companies house of any changes of appointments, share
>   allocations, etc and paying the appropriate fees
>
> - arranging the board meetings
>
> - arranging an AGM if requested
>
> by convention (but not I believe in law)
>
> - keeping the company articles safe
> - maintaining the stock certificates and transfers
> - holding the seal
>
> (for the obvious reason they have to do all the companies house stuff)
>
> The directors have responsibilities but they are only liable to the limit
> of the guarantee unless they did something stupid, and for the
> stupid-but-accidental case you definitely want to carry cover as
> part of the overall insurance.
>
> If the directors did act like idiots then in many cases the *entire
> membership* is jointly liable not just the directors. There are obvious
> reasons for that too - members can't be allowed to intentionally elect a
> couple of dubious figures to run a dodgy business then wash their hands
> of them when they vanish and the members pocket all the loot.
>
> You also need to make sure you've got a suitable pet accountant to file
> CT600 and all the returns paperwork (and pay the fees for them all)
>
> There are some other fun gotchas to be aware of as well. A big one
> several societies hit with a nasty crunch when HMRC started checking up
> is that if the organisation creates stuff and trades it inside of the
> membership it can with care be "trading mutually" and generally exempt
> from corporation tax, but sell one pencil to a non-member and the entire
> house of cards crashes down!
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 19:58:31 +0100
> From: Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
>         constitution of our hackspace
> To: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <1382036311.19149.10.camel at emerald.geode.org.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Thu, 2013-10-17 at 18:56 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Oct 2013 17:39:21 +0100
> > Tom Lloyd <napalmllama at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > One thing to add. If the directors are legally responsible for the
> > > organisation, then between them they should have a controlling share
> of the
> > > votes, or at least some form of veto.
> >
> > The company secretary is ultimately liable for most of the duties of the
> > company being performed, that includes being responsible for
>
> Company law has simplified over time, a private limited company does not
> require a company secretary, just one Director is sufficient now.
>
> It is the responsibility of the Director(s) to make sure the accounts
> and returns are filed.
>
> > You also need to make sure you've got a suitable pet accountant to file
> > CT600 and all the returns paperwork (and pay the fees for them all)
>
> small to medium companies are exempt from the audit requirements, so
> company accounts can be done yourself, no professionals required, the
> current online filing system has a fairly simple pdf that you fill out
> the boxes and submit to both companies house and hmrc and takes care of
> your annual accounts and corporation tax in one go.
>
> filing your annual return via the website is ?13 a year.
>
>
> > There are some other fun gotchas to be aware of as well. A big one
> > several societies hit with a nasty crunch when HMRC started checking up
> > is that if the organisation creates stuff and trades it inside of the
> > membership it can with care be "trading mutually" and generally exempt
> > from corporation tax, but sell one pencil to a non-member and the entire
> > house of cards crashes down!
>
> They have tried to simplify it so that filing tax returns isnt so
> complex anymore, but the real trick is make sure you dont make a
> profit :)
>
>
> The paperwork required all looks very daunting, but its not all that
> complex really.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hackspace mailing list
> Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
>
>
> End of Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 10
> *****************************************
>
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From gerrit.niezen at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 14:25:28 2013
From: gerrit.niezen at gmail.com (Gerrit Niezen)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 14:25:28 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association,
	or the constitution of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <52600C53.2050205@sucs.org>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>	<525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>	<1382019729.28038.11.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>	<526001EB.5050108@sucs.org>
	<1382025060.28038.25.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<52600C53.2050205@sucs.org>
Message-ID: <98A3DBCE-A590-4A5A-A8B3-947438659FCA@gmail.com>


> Then whether or not to hold an AGM should probably be something we
> decided on now rather than later.

I think an AGM is a good idea. We don't *have* to re-elect new directors each year (London Hackspace still has directors that were appointed in 2010/11: http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Directors), but we give the members the opportunity to do so.

Shall we then also keep the directors to be a minimum of three?

>> so i would be careful of the clause that specified some specific
>> website to do voting etc via, as that would be artificially
>> limiting.
> Agreed. I also don't particularly like the idea of tieing us to a particular service in the articles.

I have removed sub-clause 35(d) that states:

"The Governance System to be used on the adoption of these articles shall be that supplied by One Click Orgs and accessed on the World Wide Web at the address http://london-gov.hackspace.org.uk"

Note that clauses 35-37 allow directors to either use a web-based system or use written resolutions to make decisions. I've therefore left the rest clause 35 and 36 so that the directors can adopt a web-based system if they wish to.

I have contacted One Click Orgs, and their software is still under development (London Hackspace is still using an in-house system - both are available as open source on GitHub). The first software release is still 6 months away, and is intended to provide amongst other things membership management (e.g. sign-ups) and electronic voting for members. They have asked if we'd like to be alpha testers of the system, and I think we should consider this.
 
As always, the direct link to the latest version of the draft is here (.pdf): 
https://github.com/swanseahackspace/documentation/blob/master/constitution/articles.pdf?raw=true

Cheers,
Gerrit

PS - Note that there are no costs involved with changing directors or updating the constitution with Companies House.

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From justin at discordia.org.uk  Mon Oct 21 10:12:58 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:12:58 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] [Announce] Social Meeting Mon 21st October
Message-ID: <1382346778.20103.2.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

Last minute reminder, i have been posting this everywhere else but
forgot the list sorry.

Social and Community Meeting
7pm Monday 21st October 2013
Pub on the Pond, Singleton Park, Swansea






From justin at discordia.org.uk  Mon Oct 21 10:23:36 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:23:36 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Articles of association, or the
	constitution of our hackspace
In-Reply-To: <98A3DBCE-A590-4A5A-A8B3-947438659FCA@gmail.com>
References: <F21640E8-F0F9-457F-A2A3-540FFE6996B1@gmail.com>
	<1381422015.12358.12.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<A8B0264A-5D37-4F21-9F54-3318A82C36C8@gmail.com>
	<525FEC89.1080504@sucs.org>
	<1382019729.28038.11.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<526001EB.5050108@sucs.org>
	<1382025060.28038.25.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<52600C53.2050205@sucs.org>
	<98A3DBCE-A590-4A5A-A8B3-947438659FCA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1382347416.20103.7.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

On Sun, 2013-10-20 at 14:25 +0100, Gerrit Niezen wrote:
> 
> > Then whether or not to hold an AGM should probably be something we
> > decided on now rather than later.
> > 
> 
> 
> I think an AGM is a good idea. We don't *have* to re-elect new
> directors each year (London Hackspace still has directors that were
> appointed in
> 2010/11: http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Directors), but we
> give the members the opportunity to do so.
> 
> 
> Shall we then also keep the directors to be a minimum of three?

If we can find a third at this stage ?

Otherwise 2 as a minimum.

I think 9 as a maximum is a bit high, but i don't think it will hurt
anything to just leave that.





From justin at discordia.org.uk  Tue Oct 22 14:41:44 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:41:44 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Microcontroller Starter Kits
Message-ID: <1382449304.4833.4.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

If there are any more people that would like one of the Starter Kits
before the next Technical Meeting please let me know ASAP as it can take
upto 2 weeks to order the parts required.

http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/StarterKit

Has a description and photos of the contents of the kits so far, this
version of the starter kit is ?10.

Also, have any of you that already bought a kit had a chance to go
through the getting started guide ? how did it go ?

http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/GettingStarted




From nat at nuqe.net  Wed Oct 23 00:50:51 2013
From: nat at nuqe.net (Nat Morris)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 00:50:51 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Microcontroller Starter Kits
In-Reply-To: <1382449304.4833.4.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
References: <1382449304.4833.4.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
Message-ID: <CAOmq+SzYjixX-EvAFXEnCWNa_MK5GTPZxPcBXdg0hj-uaOCLKg@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 October 2013 14:41, Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk> wrote:
> http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/StarterKit
>
> Has a description and photos of the contents of the kits so far, this
> version of the starter kit is ?10.

These are excellent value!

> Also, have any of you that already bought a kit had a chance to go
> through the getting started guide ? how did it go ?
>
> http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/GettingStarted

I'm off away for the next two weeks, so won't be able to make the
technical next meeting, I thoroughly enjoyed meeting everyone at the
last one. I plan to take it with me and fill some dead time in hotels
working through the tutorials, not sure I should take it in my hand
luggage :)

-- 
Nat

07531 750292
http://twitter.com/natmorris



From justin at discordia.org.uk  Wed Oct 23 11:55:32 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:55:32 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Microcontroller Starter Kits
In-Reply-To: <CAOmq+SzYjixX-EvAFXEnCWNa_MK5GTPZxPcBXdg0hj-uaOCLKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1382449304.4833.4.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
	<CAOmq+SzYjixX-EvAFXEnCWNa_MK5GTPZxPcBXdg0hj-uaOCLKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1382525732.25439.15.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

On Wed, 2013-10-23 at 00:50 +0100, Nat Morris wrote:
> On 22 October 2013 14:41, Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk> wrote:
> > http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/StarterKit
> >
> > Has a description and photos of the contents of the kits so far, this
> > version of the starter kit is ?10.
> 
> These are excellent value!
> 
> > Also, have any of you that already bought a kit had a chance to go
> > through the getting started guide ? how did it go ?
> >
> > http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/GettingStarted
> 
> I'm off away for the next two weeks, so won't be able to make the
> technical next meeting, I thoroughly enjoyed meeting everyone at the
> last one. I plan to take it with me and fill some dead time in hotels
> working through the tutorials, not sure I should take it in my hand
> luggage :)

I would make sure youve downloaded and installed all the MPLab stuff
before you go then, those roaming charges can be murder :)

I have a second tutorial already online, i just haven't linked it into
the pages yet, third one should get written this week.  Trying to avoid
those last minute panics i have had in the past :)






From timmoore47 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 25 13:49:33 2013
From: timmoore47 at gmail.com (Tim Moore)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 13:49:33 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Re: Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <201310231100.r9NB05u3018885@stoneship.org.uk>
References: <201310231100.r9NB05u3018885@stoneship.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CAAEY5oNYWH=xBPJddN_Q6DJpNCPWFGJntqm362syn-=nsg0Q-w@mail.gmail.com>

Pic  16F1455   is a bit tricky to program with a PICkit 2

but a third party drive is available and called:- PK2DeviceFile_1_63_146.dat

The key was to download "PK2DeviceFile_1_63_146.dat" rename it
PK2DeviceFile.dat and lo it worked when using the stand alone "PICkit 2
programmer" software.

If anyone needs a copy email me.

:  )))

Tim_1


On 23 October 2013 12:00, <hackspace-request at swansea.hackspace.org.uk>wrote:

> Send Hackspace mailing list submissions to
>         hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         hackspace-request at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         hackspace-owner at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Hackspace digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Microcontroller Starter Kits (Justin Mitchell)
>    2. Re: Microcontroller Starter Kits (Nat Morris)
>    3. Re: Microcontroller Starter Kits (Justin Mitchell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:41:44 +0100
> From: Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Microcontroller Starter Kits
> To: hackspace <hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <1382449304.4833.4.camel at justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> If there are any more people that would like one of the Starter Kits
> before the next Technical Meeting please let me know ASAP as it can take
> upto 2 weeks to order the parts required.
>
> http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/StarterKit
>
> Has a description and photos of the contents of the kits so far, this
> version of the starter kit is ?10.
>
> Also, have any of you that already bought a kit had a chance to go
> through the getting started guide ? how did it go ?
>
> http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/GettingStarted
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 00:50:51 +0100
> From: Nat Morris <nat at nuqe.net>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Microcontroller Starter Kits
> To: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAOmq+SzYjixX-EvAFXEnCWNa_MK5GTPZxPcBXdg0hj-uaOCLKg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 22 October 2013 14:41, Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk> wrote:
> > http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/StarterKit
> >
> > Has a description and photos of the contents of the kits so far, this
> > version of the starter kit is ?10.
>
> These are excellent value!
>
> > Also, have any of you that already bought a kit had a chance to go
> > through the getting started guide ? how did it go ?
> >
> > http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/GettingStarted
>
> I'm off away for the next two weeks, so won't be able to make the
> technical next meeting, I thoroughly enjoyed meeting everyone at the
> last one. I plan to take it with me and fill some dead time in hotels
> working through the tutorials, not sure I should take it in my hand
> luggage :)
>
> --
> Nat
>
> 07531 750292
> http://twitter.com/natmorris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:55:32 +0100
> From: Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Swansea Hackspace] Microcontroller Starter Kits
> To: hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> Message-ID: <1382525732.25439.15.camel at justin.llw.rokcorp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Wed, 2013-10-23 at 00:50 +0100, Nat Morris wrote:
> > On 22 October 2013 14:41, Justin Mitchell <justin at discordia.org.uk>
> wrote:
> > > http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/StarterKit
> > >
> > > Has a description and photos of the contents of the kits so far, this
> > > version of the starter kit is ?10.
> >
> > These are excellent value!
> >
> > > Also, have any of you that already bought a kit had a chance to go
> > > through the getting started guide ? how did it go ?
> > >
> > > http://swansea.hackspace.org.uk/Tutorials/GettingStarted
> >
> > I'm off away for the next two weeks, so won't be able to make the
> > technical next meeting, I thoroughly enjoyed meeting everyone at the
> > last one. I plan to take it with me and fill some dead time in hotels
> > working through the tutorials, not sure I should take it in my hand
> > luggage :)
>
> I would make sure youve downloaded and installed all the MPLab stuff
> before you go then, those roaming charges can be murder :)
>
> I have a second tutorial already online, i just haven't linked it into
> the pages yet, third one should get written this week.  Trying to avoid
> those last minute panics i have had in the past :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Hackspace mailing list
> Hackspace at swansea.hackspace.org.uk
> http://stoneship.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hackspace
>
>
> End of Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 13
> *****************************************
>
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From justin at discordia.org.uk  Fri Oct 25 15:04:07 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 15:04:07 +0100
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] Re: Hackspace Digest, Vol 10, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <CAAEY5oNYWH=xBPJddN_Q6DJpNCPWFGJntqm362syn-=nsg0Q-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201310231100.r9NB05u3018885@stoneship.org.uk>
	<CAAEY5oNYWH=xBPJddN_Q6DJpNCPWFGJntqm362syn-=nsg0Q-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1382709847.24010.4.camel@justin.llw.rokcorp.com>

On Fri, 2013-10-25 at 13:49 +0100, Tim Moore wrote:
> Pic  16F1455   is a bit tricky to program with a PICkit 2
> 
> 
> but a third party drive is available and called:-
> PK2DeviceFile_1_63_146.dat
> 
> The key was to download "PK2DeviceFile_1_63_146.dat" rename it
> PK2DeviceFile.dat and lo it worked when using the stand alone "PICkit
> 2 programmer" software.

This is what i was trying to tell you at the last meeting, the normal
release version of pk2cmd isn't terribly up to date, but the microchip
web forums have updated copies of the devices.dat file to make it
support the very latest chips.

The PICs in the starter kit dont need to worry about this as they have
been pre-installed with a serial port bootloader.






From justin at discordia.org.uk  Thu Oct 31 19:24:42 2013
From: justin at discordia.org.uk (Justin Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:24:42 +0000
Subject: [Swansea Hackspace] [Announce] Technical Meeting -
	Micro-Controllers Workshop #1
Message-ID: <1383247482.7395.13.camel@emerald.geode.org.uk>

7pm Monday 4th November 2013
Volcano Theatre, 229 High Street, Swansea.

A hands on workshop teaching the basics of using small, cheap computing
devices to build circuits that can automate and interact with the
physical world. This session will be covering the Getting Started
(buttons and lights) and Communications (serial ports) tutorials.

Participants will need to bring their Starter Kit and a suitable laptop,
it would be advisable to download and install the software in advance
(links on the website). I have a few loan kits for anyone that doesn't
already have a Starter Kit.

Thanks to Volcano Swansea  for the generous use of their meeting space
for this event.